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  59

  Former Jehovah's Witnesses, will Jesus destroy all JW's when he comes to the Earth?

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what do you believe happens when one of jehovah's witnesses dies?

  do they go to hell?.

  if you do not respond, does it mean that you are only looking to discredit and bash the jw's?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Change Name

  oh great - posted the answers in the wrong topic.... sorry about that. Please ignore and go to the other topic

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/246752/4/A-question-about-lying-and-the-Jehovahs-Witnesses
• 
  138

  A question about lying and the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have seen questions regarding how much jehovah's witnesses lie all the time on yahoo answers.

  here is the latest question:.

  jehovah's witnesses, is lying at any time something jehovah approves of?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Change Name

  Hi Satanus - You said the WT uses the Bible to justify lying. The you pull out an old Watchtower magazine that talked about Rahab and her lying to those looking to murder the Hebrews. Jehovah's Witnesses teach that lying is wrong. They also say "While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it."

  They also say:

  "Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us. “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never . . . turn around and rip you open,” warned Jesus, at Matthew 7:6. For example, individuals with wicked intent may have no right to know certain things. Christians understand that they are living in a hostile world. Thus, Jesus advised his disciples to be “cautious as serpents” while remaining “innocent as doves.” Jesus did not always disclose the full truth, especially when revealing all the facts could have brought unnecessary harm to himself or his disciples. Still, even at such times, he did not lie. Instead, he chose either to say nothing or to divert the conversation in another direction.—Matthew 15:1-6; 21:23-27; John 7:3-10.

  I understand where they stand in regards to lying. I agree with them. Yet, there is a standard.

  " While all lying is reprehensible, some lies are more serious than others. For example, one person may lie out of embarrassment or fear. Another may wickedly make a practice of lying with the intent to harm or injure. Because of his malicious motivation, such a willful liar is a danger to others and would be disfellowshipped from the congregation if he does not repent. Since not all lies are inspired by maliciousness, care must be taken not to condemn unnecessarily but to be sure one knows all the factors involved when someone has told a lie. Motives and extenuating circumstances should be taken into consideration."

  Hi there Blonde - Can you expand on what they are teaching? Why exactly to you think they are contradicting statements?

  Hi Dismissing Servant - It only makes they wrong, not that they were lying. If that the case, everybody who was ever wrong in anything they would say are liars.

  Hi again Satanus - It looks like you have an issue with the Bible, not only Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Hi jgnat - What are you talking about?

  Hi there Gopher - Like the 1st century Christians, they have told anybody who would listen that Jesus will return in their lifetime. Were the 1st century Christians false prophets? Many non-Christians would readily admit they were.

  Hi Satanus - What is a basic "WT argument"? Is it similar to the "old and tired" basic "anti-JW propaganda"?

  Hi Data-Dog - The scriptures never support lying. Okay. But you really did not do anything in your post but agree that Abraham did lie in order to save his life. Like I made mention before, "a person is not under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it". The JWs teach that we should "chose either to say nothing or to divert the conversation in another direction".

  Hi there 2+2=5 - Its too bad you do not give links to the context of what was the articles talking about. I do not know what the theme of these articles or what they were talking about. What I am saying with the links to my orignial post is what the JW's teach in regards to lying. They say to refrain from lying since Jehovah hates the liar. They also say that JW's should either choose to say nothing or divert the conversation in another direction. That is what they teach. From my experience reading posts here and articles elsewhere from those who are against the Jehovah's Witnesses, they do not quote in context and mislead at every given chance.

  Hi LisaRose - You say that from experience that they use this "theocratic warfare" to excuse cover up and misrepresentation. I do not understand your example. Russell thought that the gentile times would end in 1914 and that the end times would start in the same year. Okay, they believe that. From what I understand, the end times will last for an indefinate period of time which will culminate in the great tribulation and then Armeggedon. I know from talking to many who were there in 1975 that they were hoping that the great tribulation and then Armegeddon would be in that year. But they also knew that many other prophesies would need to be revealed. They always looked forward and never let up their preaching activities. So how did they invoke this "theocratic war strategy" in regards to 1975?

  Hi again Data-Dog - I have been researching this people. I have found out that they are indeed people who are very human. They are like any other person except for one issue. They value the Bible's moral message and will keep its standards to the death. One thing I do not do is hold the opinions of those who hate the JW's in very high regard. Like the user "OUTLAW". Everything he has to say I will disregard because of his hatred of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Hi there sayswho - Not telling the whole truth is deception. The JW's do teach that you should not have deception in your heart. Do you think Jesus had deception in his heart when he told his brothers that he was not going to travel with them to the festival of the tabernacles but arrive at another time?

  Hi there mP - I agree. It makes me sick to watch many people "lord this" and "lord that" with the "Jeeesus" thrown in. I dislike pretenders like the Billy Graham's, Tood Bentley's and Geroge Rekers of the world. Jehovahs' Witnesses do not appear to be any more or less self righteous than the rank and file in the churches of Christendom.

  Hi Finklestein - Why do you comment on that but not comment on this:

  "

  Know Your NGOs!

  W hen you hear that the Watchtower Society was registered with the United Nations as an NGO, you may not be aware that there is actually more than one kind of NGO. This fact is important, and is often deliberately obscured by those who try to condemn and criticize the Society.

  In the United Nations system, there are NGOs who are associated with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and there are also NGOs associated with the Department of Public Information (DPI). The Watchtower Society was of the latter kind — associated with the DPI.

  However, many websites and at least one book deliberately misleads their readers by quoting rules and stipulations to ECOSOC NGOs, and then pretending that those resolutions and rules apply to DPI NGOs, of which the Watchtower Society was one. This tactic is grossly dishonest and many of those who make this claim know full well they are misleading their readers. Let us now examine the true differences between the NGO types, which apostates and other opposers often try to keep hidden.

  What’s the difference?

  The difference between the two types is quite stark. The online political magazine Insight has this to say on the matter:

  “For an NGO to be recognized by the United Nations, however, there are requirements, and even two statuses for which an NGO might apply. The DPI status is under the authority of the U.N. Department of Public Information (UNDPI), which controls U.N. archives and research facilities...

  “The other status for which the NGOs may apply is ECOSOC (Economic and Social Council) status. The U.N. Website says that to obtain ECOSOC standing an NGO must prove that its work is directly relevant to U.N. goals. With ECOSOC standing an NGO may enter into a formal consultative relationship with access to officials of U.N. member states and must provide useful or special information to the U.N. Economic and Social Council...”

  Notice how DPI NGOs are under a department which controls “archives and research facilities”, yet on the other hand ECOSOC NGOs have a “formal consultative relationship” with the United Nations, and it's work must be “directly relevant” to the UN's goals. In other words, the ECOSOC NGO consults with the UN on it's policies and helps it achieve it's political aims and direct it's policy-making.

  This is exactly what apostates are accusing the Watchtower Society of doing. Yet, this is not a description of the type of NGO the Watchtower Society was, but it is a description of the other type of NGO — that associated with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC).

  The Watchtower Society was a totally different type of NGO associated with a different UN department — the Department of Public Information (DPI). Accusers deny this, and claim the differences are “irrelevant facts”, when we can clearly see that is not how the UN feels about the matter. Let us now examine the original Resolutions of the United Nations to show the difference between ECOSOC and DPI NGOs."

  Hi Josie Jones - You are purposely confusing things. Where did I say I was going to pm you? Here is what I have said to you:

  1st message - "horray for me... my question has been discarded and I was labeled an apologist... lol"

  2nd message - "dunno what you just said... "disgraded"? - You are saying you post what you want any place you want regardless of the rules." Then I posted the rules highlighting keeping on topic.

  3rd message - "Why would you want to pm me? I do not understand. Do you confuse people on purpose? Anyways, discrediting people is easy. Those being discredited have to have enough humility to know when they have been discredited.

  4th message - " Okay. According to you Jesus is a liar (John 7:1-13)"

  Where did I say I wanted to pm you? All you want to do is flame... go ahead. Call me a cult member.

  Hi there OUTLAW - Yes. You did not like the lifestyle. You really do not know what my life is like. You assume you know how my life is like. You have a twisted view of who and what Jehovah's Witnesses are like.

  Hi Crisis - Your opinion does not really matter, now does it?

  Hi again Satanus - Maybe I am not humble enough... what do you think?

  Hi again Finkelstein - Your opinion is that the "WTS is a lying, corrupt publishing house". Without using the WTS as a crutch, what is truth to you?

  Hi again 2+2=5 - I cannot really comment since I do not have the needed information.

  Hi again recovering - I could be misinformed. Then, so can you. They claim that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE. They claim Bible chronology is more accurate and reliable than the secular evidences. That is their defense. They trust the Bible.

  Hi again Julia Orwell - Personally, if my friends and families lives were in peril, I would not devugle any information that would lead to their deaths. Why would you expect me to? Why would you expect Jehovah's Witnesses to do the same?

  Hi there jhine - Jehovah's Witnesses are looking to teach others about Bible truth and how to live life as a Christian. That is what they share. They tell everything they know about what they teach. They have two books they lead the study through using the Bible as the standard. I did not notice anything they have left out. No information has been withheld. Everything I have asked about has been answered.

  Now, what kind of information do you want to know apart from understanding the Bible. When you teach somebody about your Christian faith, do you go over all the scandals that your people have gone through since the 5th century, especially the horrible ones in the 20th and 21st centuries?

  Hi Dismissing Servant - Okay. You believe the Christians in the 1st century are liars. Do we need to proceed with our conversation any longer?

  Hi again Data-Dog - Revisionist history, controlling information, forbidding Bible studies, misquoting authors. There are two sides to every conflict. History is subjective to the one who lives it. The history of the US is different from the perspective of the political parties. Which viewed history is more correct? The republican or the democrat? How does Rush Limbaugh's view of history differ from that of Thom Hartmann's? What kind of information do they control. I have heard from opposers that the JW's have misquoted authors but it seems more likely that they quoted correctly but the context may have been a bit off.

  Hi again wasblind - you misconstrue what I mean. People do not stay on topic and start nitpicking. No structure.

  Hi again 2+2=5 - I saw the test. I did see somebody disagree with some of the quotes. I cannot comment since I do not have context.

  Hi again wasblind - You have to understand that Jehovah's Witnesses believe their society is the only Christianity. If Christianity is the only path to the Father and truth, then nobody should have to choose between a false religion and their family. That is what I thought the article taught after reading it. I understand that you believe the Witnesses are a false religion and are not Christian in any sense of the word. But they think of you the same way you think of them... but they are a little louder.

  Hi again LisaRose - Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only Christian people. You believe the same, do you not? Do you believe that only those who worship Jesus as God are the only Christian people? Do you not believe that only those who "believe on Jesus", which means to you that he is God, are to be considered Christian? If the JWs are the only Christian people, then yes, you should make the choice of Christianity over that of your family.

  If I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christian people, why is that delusional? There is only one Christianity. Should I think you are delusional to claim that only born again Christian's, those who believe Jesus is to be worshiped as YHWH, to be the only Christians?

  Hi again Gopher - Yes. They choose to follow Bible standards and morals over that of their families. They would be correct if they were the true Christian church.

  Hi there TD - cut and paste - nice one! Can you explain what each one of those articles are teaching?
• 
  59

  Former Jehovah's Witnesses, will Jesus destroy all JW's when he comes to the Earth?

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what do you believe happens when one of jehovah's witnesses dies?

  do they go to hell?.

  if you do not respond, does it mean that you are only looking to discredit and bash the jw's?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Change Name

  Hi Satanus - You said the WT uses the Bible to justify lying. The you pull out an old Watchtower magazine that talked about Rahab and her lying to those looking to murder the Hebrews. Jehovah's Witnesses teach that lying is wrong. They also say "While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it."

  They also say:

  "Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us. “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never . . . turn around and rip you open,” warned Jesus, at Matthew 7:6. For example, individuals with wicked intent may have no right to know certain things. Christians understand that they are living in a hostile world. Thus, Jesus advised his disciples to be “cautious as serpents” while remaining “innocent as doves.” Jesus did not always disclose the full truth, especially when revealing all the facts could have brought unnecessary harm to himself or his disciples. Still, even at such times, he did not lie. Instead, he chose either to say nothing or to divert the conversation in another direction.—Matthew 15:1-6; 21:23-27; John 7:3-10.

  I understand where they stand in regards to lying. I agree with them. Yet, there is a standard.

  " While all lying is reprehensible, some lies are more serious than others. For example, one person may lie out of embarrassment or fear. Another may wickedly make a practice of lying with the intent to harm or injure. Because of his malicious motivation, such a willful liar is a danger to others and would be disfellowshipped from the congregation if he does not repent. Since not all lies are inspired by maliciousness, care must be taken not to condemn unnecessarily but to be sure one knows all the factors involved when someone has told a lie. Motives and extenuating circumstances should be taken into consideration."

  Hi there Blonde - Can you expand on what they are teaching? Why exactly to you think they are contradicting statements?

  Hi Dismissing Servant - It only makes they wrong, not that they were lying. If that the case, everybody who was ever wrong in anything they would say are liars.

  Hi again Satanus - It looks like you have an issue with the Bible, not only Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Hi jgnat - What are you talking about?

  Hi there Gopher - Like the 1st century Christians, they have told anybody who would listen that Jesus will return in their lifetime. Were the 1st century Christians false prophets? Many non-Christians would readily admit they were.

  Hi Satanus - What is a basic "WT argument"? Is it similar to the "old and tired" basic "anti-JW propaganda"?

  Hi Data-Dog - The scriptures never support lying. Okay. But you really did not do anything in your post but agree that Abraham did lie in order to save his life. Like I made mention before, "a person is not under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it". The JWs teach that we should "chose either to say nothing or to divert the conversation in another direction".

  Hi there 2+2=5 - Its too bad you do not give links to the context of what was the articles talking about. I do not know what the theme of these articles or what they were talking about. What I am saying with the links to my orignial post is what the JW's teach in regards to lying. They say to refrain from lying since Jehovah hates the liar. They also say that JW's should either choose to say nothing or divert the conversation in another direction. That is what they teach. From my experience reading posts here and articles elsewhere from those who are against the Jehovah's Witnesses, they do not quote in context and mislead at every given chance.

  Hi LisaRose - You say that from experience that they use this "theocratic warfare" to excuse cover up and misrepresentation. I do not understand your example. Russell thought that the gentile times would end in 1914 and that the end times would start in the same year. Okay, they believe that. From what I understand, the end times will last for an indefinate period of time which will culminate in the great tribulation and then Armeggedon. I know from talking to many who were there in 1975 that they were hoping that the great tribulation and then Armegeddon would be in that year. But they also knew that many other prophesies would need to be revealed. They always looked forward and never let up their preaching activities. So how did they invoke this "theocratic war strategy" in regards to 1975?

  Hi again Data-Dog - I have been researching this people. I have found out that they are indeed people who are very human. They are like any other person except for one issue. They value the Bible's moral message and will keep its standards to the death. One thing I do not do is hold the opinions of those who hate the JW's in very high regard. Like the user "OUTLAW". Everything he has to say I will disregard because of his hatred of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Hi there sayswho - Not telling the whole truth is deception. The JW's do teach that you should not have deception in your heart. Do you think Jesus had deception in his heart when he told his brothers that he was not going to travel with them to the festival of the tabernacles but arrive at another time?

  Hi there mP - I agree. It makes me sick to watch many people "lord this" and "lord that" with the "Jeeesus" thrown in. I dislike pretenders like the Billy Graham's, Tood Bentley's and Geroge Rekers of the world. Jehovahs' Witnesses do not appear to be any more or less self righteous than the rank and file in the churches of Christendom.

  Hi Finklestein - Why do you comment on that but not comment on this:

  "

  Know Your NGOs!

  W hen you hear that the Watchtower Society was registered with the United Nations as an NGO, you may not be aware that there is actually more than one kind of NGO. This fact is important, and is often deliberately obscured by those who try to condemn and criticize the Society.

  In the United Nations system, there are NGOs who are associated with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and there are also NGOs associated with the Department of Public Information (DPI). The Watchtower Society was of the latter kind — associated with the DPI.

  However, many websites and at least one book deliberately misleads their readers by quoting rules and stipulations to ECOSOC NGOs, and then pretending that those resolutions and rules apply to DPI NGOs, of which the Watchtower Society was one. This tactic is grossly dishonest and many of those who make this claim know full well they are misleading their readers. Let us now examine the true differences between the NGO types, which apostates and other opposers often try to keep hidden.

  What’s the difference?

  The difference between the two types is quite stark. The online political magazine Insight has this to say on the matter:

  “For an NGO to be recognized by the United Nations, however, there are requirements, and even two statuses for which an NGO might apply. The DPI status is under the authority of the U.N. Department of Public Information (UNDPI), which controls U.N. archives and research facilities...

  “The other status for which the NGOs may apply is ECOSOC (Economic and Social Council) status. The U.N. Website says that to obtain ECOSOC standing an NGO must prove that its work is directly relevant to U.N. goals. With ECOSOC standing an NGO may enter into a formal consultative relationship with access to officials of U.N. member states and must provide useful or special information to the U.N. Economic and Social Council...”

  Notice how DPI NGOs are under a department which controls “archives and research facilities”, yet on the other hand ECOSOC NGOs have a “formal consultative relationship” with the United Nations, and it's work must be “directly relevant” to the UN's goals. In other words, the ECOSOC NGO consults with the UN on it's policies and helps it achieve it's political aims and direct it's policy-making.

  This is exactly what apostates are accusing the Watchtower Society of doing. Yet, this is not a description of the type of NGO the Watchtower Society was, but it is a description of the other type of NGO — that associated with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC).

  The Watchtower Society was a totally different type of NGO associated with a different UN department — the Department of Public Information (DPI). Accusers deny this, and claim the differences are “irrelevant facts”, when we can clearly see that is not how the UN feels about the matter. Let us now examine the original Resolutions of the United Nations to show the difference between ECOSOC and DPI NGOs."

  Hi Josie Jones - You are purposely confusing things. Where did I say I was going to pm you? Here is what I have said to you:

  1st message - "horray for me... my question has been discarded and I was labeled an apologist... lol"

  2nd message - "dunno what you just said... "disgraded"? - You are saying you post what you want any place you want regardless of the rules." Then I posted the rules highlighting keeping on topic.

  3rd message - "Why would you want to pm me? I do not understand. Do you confuse people on purpose? Anyways, discrediting people is easy. Those being discredited have to have enough humility to know when they have been discredited.

  4th message - " Okay. According to you Jesus is a liar (John 7:1-13)"

  Where did I say I wanted to pm you? All you want to do is flame... go ahead. Call me a cult member.

  Hi there OUTLAW - Yes. You did not like the lifestyle. You really do not know what my life is like. You assume you know how my life is like. You have a twisted view of who and what Jehovah's Witnesses are like.

  Hi Crisis - Your opinion does not really matter, now does it?

  Hi again Satanus - Maybe I am not humble enough... what do you think?

  Hi again Finkelstein - Your opinion is that the "WTS is a lying, corrupt publishing house". Without using the WTS as a crutch, what is truth to you?

  Hi again 2+2=5 - I cannot really comment since I do not have the needed information.

  Hi again recovering - I could be misinformed. Then, so can you. They claim that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE. They claim Bible chronology is more accurate and reliable than the secular evidences. That is their defense. They trust the Bible.

  Hi again Julia Orwell - Personally, if my friends and families lives were in peril, I would not devugle any information that would lead to their deaths. Why would you expect me to? Why would you expect Jehovah's Witnesses to do the same?

  Hi there jhine - Jehovah's Witnesses are looking to teach others about Bible truth and how to live life as a Christian. That is what they share. They tell everything they know about what they teach. They have two books they lead the study through using the Bible as the standard. I did not notice anything they have left out. No information has been withheld. Everything I have asked about has been answered.

  Now, what kind of information do you want to know apart from understanding the Bible. When you teach somebody about your Christian faith, do you go over all the scandals that your people have gone through since the 5th century, especially the horrible ones in the 20th and 21st centuries?

  Hi Dismissing Servant - Okay. You believe the Christians in the 1st century are liars. Do we need to proceed with our conversation any longer?

  Hi again Data-Dog - Revisionist history, controlling information, forbidding Bible studies, misquoting authors. There are two sides to every conflict. History is subjective to the one who lives it. The history of the US is different from the perspective of the political parties. Which viewed history is more correct? The republican or the democrat? How does Rush Limbaugh's view of history differ from that of Thom Hartmann's? What kind of information do they control. I have heard from opposers that the JW's have misquoted authors but it seems more likely that they quoted correctly but the context may have been a bit off.

  Hi again wasblind - you misconstrue what I mean. People do not stay on topic and start nitpicking. No structure.

  Hi again 2+2=5 - I saw the test. I did see somebody disagree with some of the quotes. I cannot comment since I do not have context.

  Hi again wasblind - You have to understand that Jehovah's Witnesses believe their society is the only Christianity. If Christianity is the only path to the Father and truth, then nobody should have to choose between a false religion and their family. That is what I thought the article taught after reading it. I understand that you believe the Witnesses are a false religion and are not Christian in any sense of the word. But they think of you the same way you think of them... but they are a little louder.

  Hi again LisaRose - Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only Christian people. You believe the same, do you not? Do you believe that only those who worship Jesus as God are the only Christian people? Do you not believe that only those who "believe on Jesus", which means to you that he is God, are to be considered Christian? If the JWs are the only Christian people, then yes, you should make the choice of Christianity over that of your family.

  If I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christian people, why is that delusional? There is only one Christianity. Should I think you are delusional to claim that only born again Christian's, those who believe Jesus is to be worshiped as YHWH, to be the only Christians?

  Hi again Gopher - Yes. They choose to follow Bible standards and morals over that of their families. They would be correct if they were the true Christian church.

  Hi there TD - cut and paste - nice one! Can you explain what each one of those articles are teaching?
• 
  138

  A question about lying and the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have seen questions regarding how much jehovah's witnesses lie all the time on yahoo answers.

  here is the latest question:.

  jehovah's witnesses, is lying at any time something jehovah approves of?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Change Name

  Hi there all

  I love it when people throw so many arguements at people. Maybe this is why people leave this forum. No structure, just bashing?

  Josie Jones - Why would you want to pm me? I do not understand. Do you confuse people on purpose? Anyways, discrediting people is easy. Those being discredited have to have enough humility to know when they have been discredited.

  Hi there Billy - I know a Bethelite too. Not very well but he like it there.  I take it you did not like it and now are telling everybody how evil a place it is?

  To lie is to deliver a false statement to another person which the speaking person knows is not the whole truth, intentionally. You can claim all you want that a lie is a lie is a lie. You can blame the Jehovah's Witnesses for their speaking about the end times and being wrong about their expectations.

  Did the 1st century Christians lie that Jesus was going to return in their lifetime. Did Jesus lie about his traveling to the festival of the tabernacles. These were untruths but were not lies. You may not understand the difference. You may refuse to even consider it. I bet you are butt hurt about something else and refuse to listen to reason.

  Hi again Wasblind - So far I have been given by the JW's all the information I need in order to be baptized. There is nothing they have left out.

  Josie Jones - Okay. According to you Jesus is a liar (John 7:1-13)

  Hi again Mr Freeze - I see the distinction you are making. To you, withholding information and omission of facts the same as lying. Did Abraham lie or did he just omit that his sister was also his wife?

  One thing is that the people is the organization. There is not "the organization" and "the people". The "organization" is Christianity and it is made up of people.

  I am making sure that this is it. I have questions that I will get answered in my due time.

  Hi again OUTLAW - Evidently you must understand your tactics are rather drull and not doing the trick. Why bother to answer my questions of you are going to call me names? It appears as if you have not thought this subject out. Are you one of those people who were DF'ed because you were caught doing something bad and then became hostile about it? Are you blindly accepting everything you read [without meditating on it] against the Jehovah's Witnesses?

  Hi again Wasblind - One thing I have noticed is that former JW's choose their beliefs over their families. Why did you choose your belief over that of your family? Why is your beliefs better than Christianity? This is what you are telling your family. Your beliefs are better than Christianity. It was your choice, not your family, to leave Christianity.

  Hi again Billy - From what I understand, they misunderstood what a Biblical generation is. Like I mentioned above, according to your definition of what a lie is, Jesus, the 1st century Christians and many other people mentioned in the Bible are liars.

  At one time I thought the USA was the best country in the world. I believed this with a passion. I saluted the flag, said the pledge and was proud my father and grandfather was in the service. As I grew older, I talked to people in different parts of the world who disagreed with me. They believed their country was better than mine. Was I a liar?

  Hi breakfast - Thank you for your answer. I do not have your persective in this matter. I have read much of the older publications and they do not have much good to say about the UN or the League of Nations. Could it be that their perspective about the UN was incomplete and they made some false assumptions? Even imperfect humans can make some major mistakes. Why would you call that lying?

  Hi Justita Themis - Are you saying that there is a double standard when it comes to lying?

  Hi again Satanus - Is old light the same as lying? Why do you believe this? The 1st century Christians corrected old light in regards to the Gentiles. Was the old light a lie and they could have associated with the Gentiles all along?

  Hi there Billy - You are reading into my answers and putting your own spin to them. You were taught well Obi Wan. Yes, I should be ashamed of myself to get to the bottom of this lying thing. Almost there and you are doing your best to shove my nose in spit.

  Hi again Dismissing Servant - Yes. I know that former Jehovah's Witnesses are very touchy. They will grab any pebble of "truth" in order to discredit Jehovah's Witnesses. They want to belong since they left the Jehovah's Witnesses. They flock here and places like this. I do not blame them for being unhappy. In my limited experience, they made a bad choice. I will get death threats. I will get a fist shook at me. Before 9/11 I was talking to Muslims on Yahoo Groups and got all sort of threats made against me. I may be even banned from this forum before everything is said and done.

  Hi there Finkelstein - I have noticed that much of what is said to be exposing is rather misleading information. At least to me it is.

  I guess you have seen the article here . Have you read it or have you just cast it aside without reading it as more lies and innuendo presenting by the evil corperation called the Watchtower?

  Hi again JWfacts - oh my! You got me! I pasted something I saw on Yahoo Answers and wanted to get a perspective on why people disregard what the JWs teach about lying.

  Hi again all - I have taken too much time away from my family today answering all your accusations and questions. It looks like I can post only 10 replies a day. I will post as time allows.

   
• 
  59

  Former Jehovah's Witnesses, will Jesus destroy all JW's when he comes to the Earth?

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what do you believe happens when one of jehovah's witnesses dies?

  do they go to hell?.

  if you do not respond, does it mean that you are only looking to discredit and bash the jw's?.

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  Change Name

  Hi there Mr. Freeze - My religion is Christianity. Jehovah's Witnesses have quoted the NWT at 1 Tim. 6:3, 4. Here it is for you to read.

  "How can we protect ourselves against false teachers? The Bible’s counsel regarding how to deal with them is clear. (ReadRomans 16:17; 2 John 9-11.) “Avoid them,” says God’s Word. Other translations render that phrase “turn away from them,” “keep away from them,” and “stay away from them!” There is nothing ambiguous about that inspired counsel. Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are “ mentally diseased ,” and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings. (1 Tim. 6:3, 4) Jehovah, the Great Physician, tells us to avoid contact with them. We know what he means, but are we determined to heed his warning in all respects?"

  "If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, e is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions..."

  What do other translations call them? "but has a sick interest in disputes", "does not understand anything", "but doting about question", " but he is ineffective in disputes", " but sick about questions and strifes of words", "but is crazy over discussions and controversies".

  Here is what one commentary says about this scripture (link here) "But doting - Margin, "sick." The Greek word - νοσε´ω noseo¯ - means properly to be sick; then to languish, to pine after. The meaning here is, that such persons had a sickly or morbid desire for debates of this kind. They had not a sound and healthy state of mind on the subject of religion. They were like a sickly man, who has no desire for solid and healthful food, but for that which will gratify a diseased appetite. They desired not sound doctrine, but controversies about unimportant and unsubstantial matters - things that bore the same relation to important doctrines which the things that a sick man pines after do to substantial food."

  Here is another commentary: (link here)

  but doting about questions and strifes of words: or he is "sick or diseased"; his mind is distempered; he is like one in a fever, that is delirious; his head is light and wild; his fancy is roving, and he talks of things he knows not what; his head runs upon "questions"; foolish and unlearned ones, about the law and works, and the necessity of them to justification and salvation; concerning genealogies, and other fruitless and unprofitable subjects:

  From what I have observed, Jehovah's Witnesses are relaying what the Bible has already taught. You can cry and pout, but realistically if you are an apostate and speak against them, you are a doting fool, or mentally diseased.

  Hi again Recovering - Oh, you are right. You did answer my question and then threw many demanding questions at me. I will answer your questions at my leisure. Right now I am not interested. Not afraid since I have nothing to fear. So right now, you do not believe in hell. You must be on the path to atheism or maybe an atheist already. If you do or do not believe in God, what does your questions indicate your interests are?

  Hi again OUTLAW - You have your twist about this video . Live with it. You believe Jehovah's Witnesses are petty and superstiticious. Okay... does this mean that you have a sick interest in disputes?

  Hi there Dismissing Servant - You ask a good question. Jesus will not just kill people, he will justly execute them. He will read the heart and put an end to them. He will not bind them in a place forever where they are tormented.

  Hi there Jeff - So you do not believe in God or hellfire. Okay.

  Hi there again Ucantnome - Again, we are not talking about passing the bread. We are talking about whether you think all Jehovah's Witnesses will be destroyed or go to hell to be tormented forever. Maybe you do think they will be going to hell and are afraid to admit it. You think your parents will be tormented? Would you confront Jesus and tell him to knock it off?

  Hi there again Pterist - Tricky words. You could have just said "I do not know" and leave it at that. I agree that Jehovah holds the individual Christian responsible for his/her actions yet he also works through his Son over the guidance of the Christian congregation. You must be a Christian in order "to be saved". If you are not a part of Christianity, then you will not "be saved". There is only one Christianity and those who make up this Christianity work together in unity to move forward with the message about the kingdom of God. We can talk about this later.

  Hi Frankiespeakin - So chime one more up to atheism.

  Hi there JWfacts - Okay. My question is senseless to you. To me it is a question asked all former Jehovah's Witnesses. I do not think that there is a religion called "ex-Jehovah's Witnesses". I know that former Witnesses all have different beliefs. Many I have come to find are atheists. Why do you suppose all these people from all these different aspects of life believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong.

  So are you one of those people that believe that God works through all religions? The Bible does teach that few will make it on the road to life. Is your beef with the Jehovah's Witnesses or with Christianity? Born again Christians claim that only they will go to heaven and every body else to hell. Catholics teach much of the same but believe all their sects will come back to the "true Church" before Jesus arrives.

  Hi there Eve - Oh Eve. You used the "c" word to try and antagonize me. How nice. Yes, please call me a brainwashed mindless idiot. It makes your side of things so much clearer. Yes, I see the light and will leave the "Watchtower" because you called me the "c" word.

  I have been called a cult member since before I started studying with the Witnesses. Those who are ignorant like to demonize things that they do not understand. American's called the Japanese "Nips" and "Japs". The Chinese calls everybody not Chinese demons. The American racists called black people "N". Religionists like to call those who are not of their "sect" the name of cult because it makes them feel good that they chose the right side of things.

  It is an answerable question. You say yes or no. You say they will roast in hell for being a JW or you say that you do not believe in hell because you are an atheist.

  Hi there jgnat - sure, answer away. I do not know what you can contribute since I am asking about former JW's.

  Hi there again Resistance is Futile - Thank you for answering my question. I agree with you: A state of non-existence. The closest thing I can come up with is a deep sleep.

  I think only Christians will be saved through Armageddon. Everybody not a Christian will be put to death. Jehovah puts the child under the responsibilty of the parent. According to what I have been taught by the JW's, all those who did not hear about Jehovah will be given an opportunity to worship God during the 1000 year reign of Jesus. This would include children.

  Hi there Data-dog - Is this not why you from door to door? To warn others that Jehovah's Day is coming? To give them the opportunity to accept or reject Christianity? To make disciples? From what I was taught, Jesus will judge the heart. The righteous and the unrighteous will be resurrected.

  Hi there Sooner - So you are an atheist. You could have just said that instead of coming down on me. A bit of understanding and compassion from you?
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  138

  A question about lying and the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have seen questions regarding how much jehovah's witnesses lie all the time on yahoo answers.

  here is the latest question:.

  jehovah's witnesses, is lying at any time something jehovah approves of?.

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  Change Name

  Hi Mr Freeze - I disagree. It is not okay for Jehovah's Witnesses to lie. There were a few links that shows you what they teach. From what I have read, "spiritual warfare" is withholding information, not lying. You can give no information by not answering. The JW's give Matthew 15:1-6 as a reference to this type of "spiritual warfare". Jesus was asked a simple question. Jesus answered the question with one of this own, deflecting the animosity of the question from his discples to thsoe of the Pharisee and their traditions. What I find interesting is that anti-JW "apologists" refuse to quote the whole quote in regards to this. Why do you suppose that is?

  Hi Uncantnom - uhmm OKay.

  Hi Satanus - Where does the quote tell you that it is okay to lie to you? Withhold information is what it says. If you ask a JW where the rest of the congregation is so you can get them arrested for blaphemy against the state, they have the right to withhold that information by not giving you an answer. Look at the scriptures used in order to see what is meant and a full explanation will be given you.

  Josie Jones - Then keep to yourself if you are tired of all the JW apologists that come to this forum. Keep slapping each others back on how wise you were to "get out" of the hated "Watchtower". Must get old posting whitty remarks like you do...

  All else - I am not a Jehovah's Witnesses. I have studied with them for 2 years and then stopped last June because we went through the two books. I will point my finger at former JW's and opposers of JW's. I will ask pointed questions about you. I will ask you for your beliefs since you "left" the "Watchtower". I do not believe everything that the JW's taught me. I have come to the conclusion that they are the closest thing to a Christian people. You agree to disagree.
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  138

  A question about lying and the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have seen questions regarding how much jehovah's witnesses lie all the time on yahoo answers.

  here is the latest question:.

  jehovah's witnesses, is lying at any time something jehovah approves of?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Change Name

  Hi there Josie

  dunno what you just said... "disgraded"? - You are saying you post what you want any place you want regardless of the rules.

  1.Insulting, threatening or provoking language
  2.Inciting hatred on the basis of race, religion, gender, nationality or sexuality or other personal characteristic.
  3.Swearing, using hate-speech or making obscene or vulgar comments.
  4.Breaking the law
  This includes libel, condoning illegal activity and contempt of court (comments which might affect the outcome of an approaching court case). You may post a small amount of third party material, but please help us to avoid breaching copyright by naming its author and publication. We are unable to investigate all third party material, so where possible, please provide a link instead.
  5.Spamming
  Please don't add the same comment to more than one forum.
  6.Advertising
  You can mention relevant, non-commercial websites as long as they support your comment.
  7.Impersonating or falsely claiming to represent a person or organisation.
  Please don't mislead other users by abusing our registration procedure.
  8.Posting in a language other than English.
  9.Invading people's privacy
  Please don't post private addresses or phone numbers, including your own. You may post email addresses so long as you make it clear who they belong to.
  10.Posting an off-topic comment.11.Publicly disputing or arguing about moderator decisions
  If you disagree with any action taken then please raise it via email or PM.
• 
  138

  A question about lying and the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have seen questions regarding how much jehovah's witnesses lie all the time on yahoo answers.

  here is the latest question:.

  jehovah's witnesses, is lying at any time something jehovah approves of?.

  1. 
  2. 
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  Change Name

  horray for me... my question has been discarded and I was labeled an apologist... lol
• 
  138

  A question about lying and the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have seen questions regarding how much jehovah's witnesses lie all the time on yahoo answers.

  here is the latest question:.

  jehovah's witnesses, is lying at any time something jehovah approves of?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Change Name

  I have seen questions regarding how much Jehovah's Witnesses lie all the time on Yahoo Answers. Here is the latest question:

  Jehovah's Witnesses, is lying at any time something Jehovah approves of?

  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AsMnrKSSBoXEVIHuzyJDr1Xty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20130302060627AAVYrfF

  One Jehovah's Witness answered this question with the following:

  "Here is what we teach:
  
  Be Honest in All Thingshttp://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102008073
  
  The Bible’s Viewpoint: Lying—Is It Ever Justified?http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102000087
  
  Why Be Truthful?http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2007081
  
  "While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. Jesus Christ counseled: “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open.” (Mt 7:6) That is why Jesus on certain occasions refrained from giving full information or direct answers to certain questions when doing so could have brought unnecessary harm. (Mt 15:1-6; 21:23-27; Joh 7:3-10) Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light.—Ge 12:10-19; chap 20; 26:1-10; Jos 2:1-6; Jas 2:25; 2Ki 6:11-23."http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002738
  
  
  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/
  
  "A Not-Guilty Verdict
  In this brief work we have shown you how the Watchtower Society's DPI NGO status has been blown out of proportion by opposers — and how those same opposers wish to silence us. We have seen how the Society's version of events corroborates with all of the evidence we have been able to find — even the “evidence” presented by apostates.
  
  It really saddens us when we think of those former brothers and sisters who listened to such apostates and were misled to the point of either disassociating themselves or being put out of the congregation. The Bible clearly advises us to “avoid” apostate teachers, instructing us to “keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.” Why? Because “men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own bellies; and by smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of guileless ones”. (Romans 16:17-18) The Apostle warned, “your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone.” (1 Peter 5:8) It is very sad to see those who have been devoured by the apostate's NGO conspiracy theory."

  I am not interested in making this a WT/NGO thread. There is a whole folder for this.

  Why do opposers and apostates to Jehovah's Witnesses like to twist their teaching in regards to lying and claim that Jehovah's Witnesses lie through their teeth because they are allowed to because of something called "theocratic warfare"? The teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses are plain with the links above.

  I am not interested in copy and pasters loading this topic up with "proof texts" from websites that oppose them. I would like to know why people overlook this blantant misrepresentation of their teachings.
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  59

  Former Jehovah's Witnesses, will Jesus destroy all JW's when he comes to the Earth?

  by Change Name in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what do you believe happens when one of jehovah's witnesses dies?

  do they go to hell?.

  if you do not respond, does it mean that you are only looking to discredit and bash the jw's?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Change Name

  Hi there

  Looks like many of you became athiests and do not believe in the afterlife.

  Some of you were very mean in how you answered. Not entirely unexpected.

  Hi Tenyearsafter - I have not answer many questions or even started many topics. Why falsely accuse me?

  Hi Theocratic Sedition - Oh my. A bloodthirsty one. Why do you believe they will burn in hell? You think your Jesus is that evil of a god that he torture his creation for choosing wrong?

  Hi Recovering - Thank you for not answering my question. If I wanted to talk about those subjects I would have created a new topic. For your reading pleasure, please go to the following blog to get your questions answered

  http://defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com/

  Hi Clarity - Thank you also for not answering my question. Like with Recovering, if I wanted to talk about those subjects I would have started a topic. For to this blog if you are seeking your answers:

  http://defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com/2013/02/1-timothy-25-how-can-jesus-possibly-be.html

  Hi Pterist - It does not really matter what I believe. My question asks what you believe.

  Hi OUTLAW - You are a mean one, huh? You probably did not even get the message about Sparlock. Let me spell it out for you. Spiritism is bad. God is good. Christian do no spiritism. No teach kids spiritism good. No matter how harmless is appears...